27/02/12 - 12h22

Cecile Peterkin

Cecile is a career strategist and corporate mentor; president of the Junior League of Toronto. She is also a certified career and retirement coach, and a member of the International Coach Federation and the Career Professionals of Canada.

Background

• The Canadian Economy
• Where to do business in Canada?
• Business women in Brazil and in Canada: what are the differences?
• The importance of online presence in the business world
• The new demands of a globalized market

Interview

Tom Reaoch:

Today we have a great guest from Toronto Canada. I was introduced to Cecile by Jen Harris of Global Talk Radio. Cecile Peterkin was a guest and Jen recommended that I listen to her interview, which I did. Cecile Peterkin, she’s a Career Strategist and Corporate Mentor; president of Cosmic Coaching Centre, and also president of the Junior League of Toronto. She’s a certified career and retirement coach, as well as a member of the International Coach Federation and the Career Professionals of Canada. And as I mentioned she’s also president of the Junior League of Toronto which is an organization of women committed to promoting and developing the potential of women and improving communities through effective action and leadership. So with that Cecile, welcome to Talk2Brazil.

Cecile Peterkin:

Thanks Tom and a pleasure being here.

Tom Reaoch:

It’s nice to have you and it’s also interesting for me how this all came about because I continually receive information about different speakers throughout the world now and your name was on one of the lists that Jen sent to me and I listened to your interview and as I listened I says, ‘Hey that’s a pretty good fit’ because when we look out into the business world today sometimes there are, I think, there’s a lot of things that are the same but there are some things that might be a little bit different. But before we get into the details what I would like is from a business perspective and you as a business person help our listeners understand a little bit about the economy right now in Canada, from a business standpoint and also from a job standpoint.

Cecile Peterkin:

Okay, well from a business standpoint business overall is very good for us and there are a lot of changes because of course, you know like everyone else around the world that went into that recession a few years ago it’s just that we weren’t as deep as a lot of others because we didn’t get as involved in the sub-prime rate. Unemployment right now is about 7.1% as of September 2011. Now that being said, the majority of Canadians who really want to find work can find work, it’s just that now, you know coming out of the recession it takes a little bit longer because a lot of companies now, I would say are more particular, they’re taking a longer time, their interviews are a lot more, you know, they’re a lot deeper, they’re a lot more [receptive] to find the right person because they have the time. You can definitely find jobs, there’s no two ways about it, but our economy’s very good. Canada’s also very good for entrepreneurs and you find a lot of people like myself who have started our own business have done pretty well.

Tom Reaoch:

So it’s easier to start a business in Canada and specifically in Toronto?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes, I would say so because there are a lot of government agencies and help to help you with your business plan so you are able to set it up and, you know get a marketing plan, your financial plan, projection; I would say yes and we have a lot of women entrepreneurs as well, a lot.

Tom Reaoch:

Oh good. Why is that? Is that specific to Toronto, is that specific to Canada?

Cecile Peterkin:

Both, a lot in Toronto but all over there are quite a few entrepreneurs but the, considering Toronto is the largest city and the economic capital of Canada it tends to have more women and I imagine because a lot of times when women might leave the work force to have a child and they, you know a lot of people leaving the workforce now to start a family, they’re [literally] older than, you know years gone by, they’re in their mid thirties or even early forties and they just don’t what to go back to the rat race, they’re educated, they’ve got good business sense and skills so staying at home, they decide to start something.

Tom Reaoch:

And fit that in with a different lifestyle and a business lifestyle that’s good.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes it is, exactly.

Tom Reaoch:

And that’s, and you say it’s easy to start a business within that context of a woman in mid-career wanting to start her own business, that’s easy then?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes it is, yes because the tools are out there to help you.

Tom Reaoch:

One of the situations here in Brazil, just for comparison, sometimes that’s exactly difficult because it’s the reverse; obviously many times for women it’s hard to start in a job and get a career in the job place. Brazil historically has been a macho society and for women to grow to middle management, even upper management has never been easy.

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh really?

Tom Reaoch:

So many times then women will, if they can get in and start growing then they stay because even to do that in a business sense, and I’m talking a business sense for business to business, sometimes that’s difficult. But even here too if you have, in the terms of interpreters and women starting basically in commerce starting up stores, shops, what have you; that’s where it’s gone.

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh, okay. No, we’re quite good when it comes to promoting women within, of course we still have our struggles too because we’d like to s more women as we call it, the [she-sweep] but yes we have a lot of women in senior management and also in middle management.

Tom Reaoch:

A little bit on the Junior League then, what do you do to focus and to help – is it young girls, is it young women? What is the focus of the Junior League?

Cecile Peterkin:

Junior League in Toronto, we started in 1926 but it actually started in New York in 1901 and her name was Mary Harriman. She started it by trying to help basically people that you would call underprivileged, you know, live a better life. She went, they went out and helped them so that’s how Junior League came about so we joined the league because there are 292 leagues in four countries, the UK, Mexico, Canada and the U.S. We basically do the same thing where it’s run by women and we go out in the community and see what’s lacking, what’s needed and then we create programs, we work with community partners and create programs for whatever it is that we notice that’s lacking. For instance in Toronto right now our focus is healthy body, healthy mind and the program we’re creating it’s called “Kids in the kitchen” and it’s a….

Tom Reaoch:

Kids in the kitchen? That’s good.

Cecile Peterkin:

Kids in the kitchen, yes.

Tom Reaoch:

Kids are always in the kitchen, right?

Cecile Peterkin:

But not eating the right things. Yes, that’s a project that’s also in the U.S. and Mexico and the UK and what we’re doing is actually teaching mothers and kids how to make easy, healthy meals because you know, everyone’s talking about obesity, so that’s what our focus is. We tend to go into the community and so what we do is we also promote volunteerism, so we see it as a cause not just as [service] but as a cause.

Tom Reaoch:

So it’s not necessarily just business-oriented, it’s to help the lifestyle become better for people.

Cecile Peterkin:

Exactly, so we train our women to go out there and be civic leaders.

Tom Reaoch:

All right, but then that too becomes a stepping-stone into the business world?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes, it can. When it first started, a lot of these women were actually stay at home moms, so they got trained as they were in the business world so they would get presentation training, speaking; they would get all the type of training. Now things have changed, so a lot of our members are now in the corporate world so they already have all of that training but we still continue to do that type of training because you might have someone who’s climbing the corporate ladder and they’re able to get that type of training to go into the business world. It also helps to enhance your skills because if you’re a shy person we always say to our new members if you’re shy, joining the league is a perfect place for you to [inaudible]. So therefore…

Tom Reaoch:

Lose a little bit of your shyness, right?

Cecile Peterkin:

Exactly.

Tom Reaoch:

Is there room for shy persons in the business world? Good question, huh?

Cecile Peterkin:

Not really. You have to learn how to hide it. Yes, you have to use it maybe to your advantage. You know I have a friend and he’s shy but you would never know that he’s shy; he comes across as being very focused, very detail-oriented, so he would use it to his advantage and he was very good at his job. So you have to know how to use it.

Tom Reaoch:

To overcome that.

Cecile Peterkin:

Exactly, because you know what it’s like now you can’t really sit around being shy and think things will be handed to you because you’re a good worker; it takes more than that.

Tom Reaoch:

I don’t think that, well, I think that time is long past.

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh yes, yeah.

Tom Reaoch:

Long, long past. I want to get onto a little bit of what I heard on your interview at the Global Talk Radio and a number of the things that you talked about really impressed me. One of things you mentioned were that 80% of jobs are never advertised.

Cecile Peterkin:

That’s correct.

Tom Reaoch:

Now is that specific to Toronto, is that your general feeling and sort of everywhere?

Cecile Peterkin:

I say it’s a general feeling everywhere and I’m sure in the larger countries like Canada and the U.S. maybe it’s a little bit more but this figure it’s overall and that’s what they call the hidden job market. That’s really started more during the recession than anytime else and, because you know the phrase, “It’s not what you know, it’s who you know,” but now it’s more than that, it’s what you know and also who you know.

Tom Reaoch:

Right, and who knows what you know, right?

Cecile Peterkin:

Exactly.

Tom Reaoch:

Now I’m also a networker and many of the presentations that I make here in Brazil is around networking and that’s what I basically help Brazilian business persons understand because also years ago in smaller communities, even in São Paulo which is a large city but from a business sense the community was very small and everybody sort of knew each other and business was done within a certain business circle. Things always happen that way, but when we’re looking into a – even Brazil is growing and it’s a continental country but even today in a global environment you really need to get beyond that and you need to find other people and make more connections.

Cecile Peterkin:

That is correct, yes, so the networking is face-to-face and it’s also on the internet, social media.

Tom Reaoch:

Yeah, today most of my connections are just as we met, virtually.

Cecile Peterkin:

Exactly Perfect example.

Tom Reaoch:

No, it is you know, how probable would it be that we would meet personally is probably closer to zero.

Cecile Peterkin:

Right, yes.

Tom Reaoch:

Than just being out there on the internet, being out there on the web and doing what I do, doing what you do and then having other persons help facilitate that amongst people and that’s really how information’s flowing today.

Cecile Peterkin:

Exactly and this is what I say to clients all the time, it’s a global world now, when we hear global we really mean global, you just can’t sit where you are and expect to find a job or to meet people, you have to get out there.

Tom Reaoch:

Right. So that hidden market, if you’re not out there you don’t see it so really, the advertised market is only 20% just at the tip of the iceberg, literally.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes, because what happened now with the recession as well too is there’s this [to] media, so you make a connection, people get to know you, it doesn’t have to be face-to-face, they’ll recommend you for a job, also they get to know what you know and how you can represent yourself.

Tom Reaoch:

But one of the points that you started out with is starting your career, now how do the younger persons who have just finished school or have already finished school, how do they get out there, what do they do?

Cecile Peterkin:

First thing first is they need a very good resume and before they even do that is what I find with a lot of the younger generation because I have had the opportunity to work with a number of them and I even remember myself when I finished university is that you’ve got this great expectation, you figure, “Okay, I went to school, I‘ve studied for four years, I must find a job” and when, you know after maybe six months to eight months and then they realize and that’s how I end up seeing a lot of these younger generation is they realize, “Oh gee, there’s more to it than that,” you need a plan. You need to know what you want, what you’re looking for because an employer will not look at your resume and say, “Oh yeah, this person will fit here or fit there,” those days are long gone. You’ve got to approach it with this is what I’m looking for, this is what I have and this is what I can do for your company. So you definitely have to start with a plan and the plan [means] looking at your skill sets that you’re bringing to the table, what is your brand, what makes you so different from the other person because now everybody’s dedicated, now everybody’s got an undergrad or a masters, so it’s now what sets me apart from the other person that has an MBA. These are the things that they need to do before they even hit the job market and create their resumes based on that.

Tom Reaoch:

I’d like to pick up on that point, one of the things that I’ve seen, persons going through undergraduate work and then right into an MBA, I’ve always felt that they really lose a little bit of a practical understanding of what life and what business is all about and when they do finish their MBA they really haven’t had any real life or real business experience. Do you find that the same in Canada?

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh, yes it is, yes it is the same and because it’s always been told with your MBA you’re guaranteed a job, you come and, that used to happen before.

Tom Reaoch:

That used to happen.

Cecile Peterkin:

But now…

Tom Reaoch:

Years ago we were told that if you had a university degree you’d find a job.

Cecile Peterkin:

Exactly, and you could find one.

Tom Reaoch:

That was years ago, and you could. Well actually I can remember, because I graduated from the university in 1969 and at that time you had all these job fairs and things at the universities where the companies actually came to the campus actually in setting up all these events trying to sell their company to students at that time and it was basically that, you know, “Where do I want to work?” But that’s something in a museum today I think.

Cecile Peterkin:

It is, and that’s why I think a lot of kids will finish their undergrad and they go get onto a Masters, whatever it is because they think more or less that that’s the ticket. First it was, “Okay, everyone get a undergrad and then now it became everyone get a Masters, especially an MBA; so there’s an influx of everyone with an MBA. And so while it’s good, you still need more than just an MBA now to get into the business world.

Tom Reaoch:

Yeah, but what I’ve seen too as an undergrad or even in the MBA, neither teach people or teach the student how to find a job.

Cecile Peterkin:

No they don’t. I also do guest lectures at colleges for that main reason is one of the community colleges that I guest lecture at is a communication program and when it comes time to talk about resume and job hunt the professor brought me in as a guest lecturer just to talk to them about how to go about it because it’s a program and a curriculum in the program but at the same time the teacher is not really on top of what’s going on and the changes that’s happening out there.

Tom Reaoch:

Right, because normally he’s a tenured professor and he’s not looking for a job, so…

Cecile Peterkin:

No, exactly and things have changed, right.

Tom Reaoch:

He doesn’t know how to do it.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes, so no, they’re not really equipped to give the full understanding of what’s really happening out there.

Tom Reaoch:

And there’s a lot happening out there and it’s happening very quickly.

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh yes, you know it changes so fast because I even speak to high schools and this one particular high school has a leadership program and we talk about and one of the topics I talk about is the 21st Century economy and what it means to live in the 21st Century economy and comparing it to the 20th Century and just telling the students who are in high school grade 11 about the changes and the things that have happened.

Tom Reaoch:

And how does that impact them and do they listen, do they hear or is it just, you know something else for them?

Cecile Peterkin:

Actually no, at the group that I speak to it’s a group that’s chosen like they’re in an elite special leadership program so they ask some really good questions, it’s so enjoyable because…

Tom Reaoch:

So they’re engaged in learning, they want the information, they want the experience?

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh yes, they ask fantastic questions, yes so I can really see then moving ahead.

Tom Reaoch:

But you also mentioned that, and obviously it’s difficult to start a career but you also said that this is a life-long pursuit, it’s never over.

Cecile Peterkin:

That’s correct, yes, because you always have to keep updating yourself and what I tell clients, you have to be one step ahead. So you’ve got the job and so you’re in your career right now however how are things changing? What’s going on? In the last ten years there are like 25 new careers that have been created just around technology so if, ten years ago or even five years ago that you’ve got your IT degree it’s okay – so yes you’re a programmer or whatever you are but how am I going to change that for the future so it’s constantly looking ahead.

Tom Reaoch:

But with that how do you get that message out; you also mentioned you only have five seconds to impress somebody, to make that first impression?

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh yes, that’s with your resume, yes, it’s five seconds.

Tom Reaoch:

But that’s throughout your life, you still only have those five seconds no matter if it’s the beginning of your career, the middle of your career, what I used to call that, it’s the elevator between one floor and another and the elevator speech used to be 15 seconds previously now it’s down to five seconds because elevators are faster.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes they are, exactly, they get up quite quickly. That comes down to knowing what you want and delivering it and knowing who you are and you just, you can deliver it, you can just deliver what you’re doing and what you’re looking for, immediately.

Tom Reaoch:

But how do you find out who you are?

Cecile Peterkin:

[Through] assessments…

Tom Reaoch:

How do you do that to, let’s say the younger person starting the career but how does somebody at 40, as you mentioned, how does the person at 40 figure out who he is?

Cecile Peterkin:

You know it’s funny because at 40 or at 20 or 30 it’s not any different, it’s just at 40 we think it’s a little bit harder. It just comes back to, one, is doing assessment of yourself; the things you have accomplished and achieved, your skill sets, the things that you’re good at, your talent, is looking at all those possibilities and start doing a little bit of research. So look at your transferrable skills. At 40, you know more than likely you have done two or three career changes, what is it that you like in all these careers that you’d like to continue doing? Or did you want to start something new? If you want to start something new, what skills do you need to start this? So it’s really and truly assessing your skills to start with including your transferrable skills.

Tom Reaoch:

Is it the same with somebody over 60?

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh definitely, I would say definitely because at over 60 you have even more experience and a lot more skills to transfer and when we look at experience, we’re looking at all the experiences here, life experience, your work experience, in volunteer work, in sports; it’s everything so I would say…

Tom Reaoch:

You mentioned something interesting, the volunteer work. How important is volunteer work when a company is looking at somebody’s resume and community service, let’s put it that way of – because that could become a differential for persons who are not involved in community activity, is that a game-changer in Canada?

Cecile Peterkin:

Well you see it’s two-fold, how I look at it with clients I tell them it’s two-fold. Everyone has become very socially conscious and a lot of companies in Canada they are socially conscious to the point where companies will give their employees time to go out and do volunteer work and so it’s good to have that because it shows that you’re giving back to the community, you’re doing something and in the process you’re also learning something new, so there are skills you can acquire. For instance, you if you’re a volunteer with the Junior League of Toronto there are so many skills you can acquire by being a volunteer with our organization that can definitely take those skills into the workforce.

Tom Reaoch:

You can overcome your shyness doing that.

Cecile Peterkin:

Exactly, yes.

Tom Reaoch:

But you’d mentioned companies give workers time to do that but the question is do they also on the other hand offer benefits or obviously they give you the time, they expect persons to use that time that way, then do they offer bonuses for those who do use it that way?

Cecile Peterkin:

What some companies will do is they will do monetary donation to that charity that you volunteer with.

Tom Reaoch:

Okay, but on the resume, back to the resume, what’s that worth on a resume, when you’re out looking for a job?

Cecile Peterkin:

The volunteer?

Tom Reaoch:

Yeah, having volunteered or having been part of community service?

Cecile Peterkin:

It’s worth a lot because especially or students or someone that’s looking for a career change because again the skills here acquired from that can be your transferrable skills.

Tom Reaoch:

And that stands out, and that’s highlighted?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes.

Tom Reaoch:

In your suggestion, on the resume, how high up on the resume should you put that?

Cecile Peterkin:

What you can do is volunteer work tend to go towards the endb however when you’re doing maybe your profile which is at the top, because your profile is that five seconds where you have to impress the hiring manager to say, “Yes, I want this person.” So in your profile you can take some of the skills from your volunteer work and highlight it there.

Tom Reaoch:

And highlight the fact that you were a volunteer and shared the time and…

Cecile Peterkin:

And the things that you’ve done, yes, so that that’s how can move it down but it’s normally towards the end, but you can take the skills and put it in because that’s where you have the transferable skills so you put it in with your other skills.

Tom Reaoch:

But on the reverse side if you aren’t a volunteer and you haven’t spent time in a community service is that something to, will they take your resume off the table and forget about you?

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh no, definitely not, no. No because hopefully you have acquired other skills from working or from going to school and you have put together a really good resume. You know volunteering is important but it’s not, it’s not a game-changer.

Tom Reaoch:

The resume then, we’re talking about the hidden market, is the resume as important in that hidden market, say you know somebody or know somebody recommends you to somebody else, how does a resume fit in with that?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes it does because although someone has recommended you, the hiring manager still will ask for a resume so it is still important because they still want to know, okay, this person has recommended you and a lot of times when they’ve recommended you too, it’s possible that they’ll send on your resume. So it’s not just going up to say, “Oh yes, I know Tom and Tom is very good so why don’t you consider hiring him,” you need more than that.

Tom Reaoch:

Yeah because today also in organizations as I’ve see here it’s not necessarily a one-person’s decision anymore.

Cecile Peterkin:

That is correct.

Tom Reaoch:

Normally to hire somebody you’re going through either committees or you’re going through a group of persons who have to sign off or buy in or normally it’s multiple interviews with different persons within the organization.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes that is correct, yes, it’s no longer, “Okay I’ve recommended you, you walk in and you’ve got the job.” There are so many different types of interviews you now have, there’s case studies, there’s panel and so many different people before you actually get the position.

Tom Reaoch:

Well, from what I hear from what you’re saying though it’s still difficult to start a career anyway, anywhere, if that’s in Canada, the United States, Brazil…

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh yes, and again, the thing is which makes it difficult for everywhere it’s all about global – we’re far away but we’re so much more connected.

Tom Reaoch:

Back to what I asked at the beginning, for Brazilians Canada’s pretty much of an unknown. How globally connected in Canada, because I’ve been to Toronto, it’s a very cosmopolitan city, you have people from everywhere – is it easier to be global in a place like Toronto than some other city in Canada?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes. Vancouver’s pretty global and Montreal as well and Canada is such a huge country as well so we are very spread out so of course we have Northwest Territory that’s also a province but Toronto is the financial hub so therefore you’ll find doing business, a lot of people are doing business in Toronto and then in Alberta which is the oil country, you’ll find the mining and oil is that end of the country.

Tom Reaoch:

But as a city which is, you’d say, Vancouver you mentioned, Vancouver and Toronto are the, are both the most global atmospheres or cosmopolitan in the aspect with, you know mix in cultures and diversity on all levels?

Cecile Peterkin:

That is correct, yes, definitely Toronto and Vancouver. .

Tom Reaoch:

Now from a Brazilian standpoint either a person wanting to either work in Canada or to establish a business, which are the cities to start, is Toronto the best port of entry?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes it is and from what I’ve seen, for the Brazilians, they are mostly in Toronto. And again…

Tom Reaoch:

What attracts them to Toronto?

Cecile Peterkin:

I would say because it is the most diverse city. We’ve got every culture here and the cultures are embraced where the Brazilians, they’ve got their parade or they have areas that they might live in but you can live anywhere, there’s no segregation, let’s put it that way. You can live wherever you want to live and still maintain your culture from your country.

Tom Reaoch:

You also mentioned when we were talking off-line that Toronto’s a safe city.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes it is, Toronto is very safe, our crime rate is relatively low for our population and for me I feel safe wherever I walk in Toronto. Of course you have certain areas and the areas that we think that are, might be rough or bad, it’s not that bad and things would only happen if you’re involved in something. Yeah, but we are relatively safe, it’s a good city to live and work…

Tom Reaoch:

Even from a business sense you’re safe, you can establish a business and the government helps you grow and wants you to succeed, they [do so much for] tax money.

Cecile Peterkin:

Well you know, exactly. Have to pay the taxes.

Tom Reaoch:

No, you have to pay the taxes but some of that reverts back to helping your business grow again doesn’t it?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes.

Tom Reaoch:

Now what is the reach of your company? You mentioned in terms of coaching, actually you’ve become an international coach, how far is your reach?

Cecile Peterkin:

As far as Australia.

Tom Reaoch:

And you do that by what? By phone, by flying over once in a while?

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh no. That’s a little far, no, by phone, Skype.

Tom Reaoch:

Okay, and how is that?

Cecile Peterkin:

It was very good actually; it and I’ve also been on a radio program as well in Australia.

Tom Reaoch:

Okay, good.

Cecile Peterkin:

So that’s as far as you can get, really.

Tom Reaoch:

Then you’re already coming back, right?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes.

Tom Reaoch:

But where else do you have clients in the world?

Cecile Peterkin:

I have clients in the UK, I have a number of clients in the U.S. as well, I’ve done clients in Ireland, I’ve done clients in France, I’ve also done a guest lecture in France and that was about two years ago.

Tom Reaoch:

But you haven’t had an opportunity to come to Brazil yet?

Cecile Peterkin:

Not as yet but I’m looking forward to it.

Tom Reaoch:

That’s how it starts though, but I think in that and part of what I like to do is to share our program and information in person; the wide variety of topics but also for – because most of my listeners, they’re all over the world, but for the Brazilian business person, to help them understand that there’s not only business throughout the world but also in terms of even coaching like your business. Sometimes it’s interesting to get a person to be your coach from another country.

Cecile Peterkin:

That’s true because you just get a different perspective and also to you realize that it’s, whatever is going on your country is going on someplace else as well.

Tom Reaoch:

So in that sense things tend to be the same.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes.

Tom Reaoch:

Sometimes you just call them something different maybe a different flavor, maybe a different way of doing it but the ways of approaching business and the ways of finding jobs to start out with and to approach business tend to be the same.

Cecile Peterkin:

Tend to be the same, yes and you know sometimes they’re in our country and we tend to think, “Oh geez, you know I hate my country because of this, this, this and this or whatever and then you realize you’re talking to someone else from a different country and it’s like, “Oh well, it’s quite similar.”

Tom Reaoch:

Well I noticed that in coming to Brazil and leaving the States and working and living here and creating a family and also, but also traveling throughout the world as an executive and working, you need to be happy wherever you are and there are opportunities wherever you are and sometimes you just don’t see those opportunities.

Cecile Peterkin:

That’s true, that is correct, exactly, you know the phrase, “The grass is always greener on the other side.”

Tom Reaoch:

Right. Well, here we have grass, sometimes there it’s covered with snow and you really can’t see it if it’s greener, right?

Cecile Peterkin:

Right, you just assume that it’s greener.

Tom Reaoch:

Or maybe the snow’s whiter?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yeah, yes, or we’ll just think Brazil is definitely greener because you have green grass all the time.

Tom Reaoch:

Well pretty much so, but even in our, between the rainy seasons the grass could become brownish so, it’s not always that way. Right now it is, because it is raining, we’re in the rainy season and everything is very green where I live so, very lush, it’s just a lot of rain. Sometimes too much, but it does and that’s one of the things that attracted me is that green because I was born in Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh is always sort of hazy and overcast.

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh yes, because Pittsburgh’s steel town.

Tom Reaoch:

Yes, when I was a child, we’re talking about the snow being whiter, actually I remember the snow was sometimes black or gray and that was years ago, not today, obviously they cleaned everything up and it’s a nice city but when I was living there I could remember gray snow. You say, “How do you make it gray?” It was just coming down with all of the soot from the steel mills.

Cecile Peterkin:

Right, exactly, yes, so much for white snow.

Tom Reaoch:

But I remember it was always whiter in Canada so I think….

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh yeah, the snow here when it falls, for a good two days or so it can be so beautiful then we’ll get a little bit messy and mucky but, yeah, it’s hanging off the branches it’s beautiful.

Tom Reaoch:

One of the things I want to do before we close, I saw that you mentioned, I think on your site you were talking about how self-confidence impacts leadership, because leadership is sort of a word that’s been in everything today and as we talk in companies and the young person’s coming out of school they need to know how to become leaders and companies want leaders and everybody has to know how to lead, right?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes.

Tom Reaoch:

No, it’s the buzz word I think and here in Brazil it’s the buzz word, everybody wants to learn how to become a better leader and everybody’s looking for leaders, right?

Cecile Peterkin:

And that is true because it’s not just the leader in the sense that you’re running the company or you’re sitting at the head of the table, it’s part of it too is also self-leadership, to be able to work with other people, it’s looking at your surroundings and know what to do next, so and it’s just having that confidence to also deliver a message as to your beliefs or the things, or make changes so leadership now it’s mixed, it’s not just, okay you’re running the company or you’re running the team and I think that’s why it’s now become more of a buzz word.

Tom Reaoch:

So then it’s not what you say it’s how you say it.

Cecile Peterkin:

It’s how you say it.

Tom Reaoch:

How you can impact people with what you say.

Cecile Peterkin:

Exactly, yes so therefore when you speak or when you walk into a room you know people expect something, you walk into a room and it’s, “Oh geez, I know he or she has something to deliver and something to say.” And people will listen.

Tom Reaoch:

And that’s part of your five seconds of first impression in any sense.

Cecile Peterkin:

There you go, exactly, yes so you really can’t walk in with your head down, you’ll – that’s it, you’ve lost it – and back to your question about being shy.

Tom Reaoch:

So what you’re saying even going out and looking at your car covered with snow you have to keep your head up and you say “I’m going to clean this car in five minutes, I’m going to get to work, then help people grow.”

Cecile Peterkin:

No, when you think about it, I laugh at it but what you just said, you never know; while you’re cleaning your car you never know who might be looking at you. You never know where your next job is coming from.

Tom Reaoch:

That’s true, that’s one thing that I say in my presentations, the world is a stage, right? And we’re always on that stage even at any sense new trainees in a company, managers, directors, whatever, people are always looking at us and I think that goes back to what you mentioned before in the personal branding, it goes into your image, how you really portray yourself, how you’re seen, whether you’re smiling or not to that point because we are being, you know we’re looked at all the time, even so much more today and I’m sure in Canada it’s probably similar to Brazil, there are cameras everywhere. Here before you get into an interview you’ve been on I don’t know how many cameras before you get into somebody’s office so they’ve seen you already.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes, we’re not that bad with the cameras but you are correct in you’re constantly being judged, the moment you walk somewhere or walking on the street, you walk in the door to an office or anything, people are looking at you. So it’s true, you just have to be constantly on, you have to realize that “I’m being watched.”

Tom Reaoch:

So you can’t be two persons at the same time; you have to be the same person all the time.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes. You have to show up who you are, you have to.

Tom Reaoch:

And you have to be that.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yeah, you have to and that’s what it’s called by, you know, you have to live your brand and it gets to the point where once you know your brand you’re constantly living the brand. You talk your brand; you walk your brand everything is about your brand, so people recognize who you are.

Tom Reaoch:

But how soon or at the beginning of the career you’re saying you have to have a brand or you have to start having a brand?

Cecile Peterkin:

Start having a brand because for someone just out of university, they’re, you know there a lot of people in the university who have done a lot, their resume, not just from work but from everything else it’s huge, so for these there are some who have developed their brand but for the most part you can start working on developing your brand, but when you get to 40 you should have a brand.

Tom Reaoch:

Right, or have a brand to change or have another brand.

Cecile Peterkin:

And have a brand…Exactly.

Tom Reaoch:

But what is the most hated question in interviews?

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh, the famous, “Tell me about yourself.”

Tom Reaoch:

What should I say?

Cecile Peterkin:

And, people never know what to say? Never and you know, people tend to get this clinical approach to it and you need to make your personality shine, you need to tell a story about who you are. You need to even put the smile on the hiring manager’s face by saying something that’s intriguing about you. You’re unique, so talk about yourself, but your personality come through, you know but don’t ramble on, that’s the thing about it…

Tom Reaoch:

That’s what I was going to say, how long should you be talking about yourself in a question like that?

Cecile Peterkin:

Well, if you’re in an interview and you keep it concise and you create your story, oh it shouldn’t take you no more than a minute to two minutes, if that.

Tom Reaoch:

Right. So what you’re saying is you should have your story and you should polish it to fit within a two-minute framework?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes, that’s it, yeah so you be concise and part of it is also, start by practicing of course and prepare to make a list of all these things that also matches the job, so you pick a few relevant points about yourself that matches the job because when you’re applying for a job there has to be something in that job and something about you why you know you fit this company and the job.

Tom Reaoch:

Or that makes you different enough that they want you.

Cecile Peterkin:

Right, so therefore you shouldn’t be going for a job that you have nothing in common with. So you look at a few of those points and you talk about it as well and be personable, just make it light.

Tom Reaoch:

So it could be the volunteer service, it could be the international experience that you had as a student or whatever.

Cecile Peterkin:

It’s anything, it could be as simple as you want to work at a daycare and you’re the first of ten kids. Talk about that because obviously if you going to…you know? You know about kids.

Tom Reaoch:

You know a lot about kids.

Cecile Peterkin:

You know a lot about kids, yes.

Tom Reaoch:

And kids are always in the kitchen right?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes.

Tom Reaoch:

Well now I know that see, kids are always in the kitchen. Okay, well Cecile I want to thank you, we’re coming to the end of our time but I want to thank you for sharing your, not only your time but also the information and your plus-attitude with us and for our listeners so I’d like to have you on again in the future, we could talk again about the business climate, we can talk about coaching here in Brazil as well.

Cecile Peterkin:

Oh, I’d love to, that’d be great.

Tom Reaoch:

But for our listeners I saw on your site you offer a free download to a career guidance book, is that correct?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes I do, yes.

Tom Reaoch:

So you want to share your site with our listeners? How can they find you and how can they find the career guidance book?

Cecile Peterkin:

It’s a career guidance book and it’s free and you can find it at cosmiccoachingcentre.com

Tom Reaoch:

And just to remind our listeners, center is C-E-N-T-R-E, correct?

Cecile Peterkin:

That is correct, yes.

Tom Reaoch:

Very good, but they also can find you on LinkedIn, right?

Cecile Peterkin:

They can find me on LinkedIn, twitter and facebook.

Tom Reaoch:

So it’s Cecile Peterkin, that’s C-E-C-I-L-E P-E-T-E-R-K-I-N.

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes, that’s correct.

Tom Reaoch:

And they’ll be able to link up, hook up and find you and then also find that free download, okay?

Cecile Peterkin:

Yes, they certainly can.

Tom Reaoch:

So thanks again for being part of Talk2Brazil.

Cecile Peterkin:

It was a pleasure Tom, thank you.

Tom Reaoch:

Thank you.